Site builder?

[ronaldroe]

Not true at all -- don't tell me that you started your career as a professional website designer. Everyone starts somewhere.

For disclosure's sake, I'm not a designer as a career. But to your point. I never even tried to get a commission until I felt like I had a really good handle on design. I figured, rightly, that no one would really want a site they could build themselves.

Honestly, I'm thankful for those who shouldn't be charging people to make websites. Those clients who come to us looking to improve their current websites (after shopping the lowest bidder) are more grateful for the work we do as opposed to having unrealistic expectations.

This is the most ridiculous point you've made. Those idiots are taking your business now, and causing those clients to distrust designers as a whole. Then, 5 years down the road, maybe they'll come to you, but they're the type of client you don't want: the one that micromanages everything you do.

Maybe, maybe not. I used to code websites by hand but later learned that it's easier to custom build my own CMS templates for my clients using Joomla!

There's nothing wrong with templating Joomla. CMS is a whole different world.

Wix.com and sitebuilder are tools for anyone to pick up and start building. If they can find a way to turn a profit using these tools, well then good for them. Who are we to say they can't?

That's the point. They are for mom & pop who don't think they need to pay an actual designer. If you're a designer using these tools, you're doing your clients a disservice.

Whether they should or should not is really an opinion, isn't it?
That's like telling someone because they haven't gone to school to become a chef, they shouldn't be cooking.

You don't have to go to school to be a designer. I prove that every time I sit in front of my computer. I have a degree in Professional Aeronautics, which is far from a design degree. But, you need to take the time to sit down and learn a craft if you want to do it. Slapping some junk together in some crap editor that kicks out AP divs that look like ass isn't the way to go, and you're doing a disservice to your clients as well as designers that actually give a damn about what they do.

Some people may not care that they are getting less than quality design -- I say let them. There is a market for Wix builders...Great.

Clients care. That's all that matters. The only market for WYSIWYG built sites are for computer illiterates who don't know better and get duped.

 

[Phreaddee]

modern media wrote

This person asked a question and got slammed by designers.

in reference to these "slams"

If it's just for you, feel free to continue on.

I've used squarespace before and whilst it can produce something that looks OK, it feels like a "paint-by-numbers" artwork. and I found it very frustrating to do anything beyond the basics.

if this is for you personally than that isn't much of a drama, you can use things like weebly,

in answer to your question the majority would use either joomla, drupal or wordpress,

hardly sounds like chest beating to me...

the initial question was answered and expanded on. It was discussed that these types of systems are OK if you are wanting a personal site or similar, but that it might not be the best option if you were intending on becoming a professional/are a professional. the occasional "slam" may have happened, but was also apologised for. however it seems that you are the one who is getting their knickers in a knot over it.

 

[che09]

sometimes we are, sometime we aren't. but we are always honest.

very well,it's better to be honest and direct to the point! It's one way of learning.

I haven't try it,and in my own opinion I don't think I'll try it!

 

[Modern_Media]

Before you read this and think it's getting "tense" -- please don't.
To me, this is a great debate. I'm getting valuable opinions from designers from other States and Countries.

This is the most ridiculous point you've made. Those idiots are taking your business now, and causing those clients to distrust designers as a whole. Then, 5 years down the road, maybe they'll come to you, but they're the type of client you don't want: the one that micromanages everything you do.

I have to disagree to a point. In actuality, those "Idiots" are offering a less than quality design for a fraction of what we would charge. In business- you can't service everyone. You don't WANT to service everyone either.
Some of our best paying clients have had bad websites for several years and they now realize the value of having a website as a marketing tool rather than just a presentation of their business.

That's the point. They are for mom & pop who don't think they need to pay an actual designer. If you're a designer using these tools, you're doing your clients a disservice.

I do agree that using wix/sitebuilder is a disservice.

But, do you want to do business with someone who isn't willing to pay? Of course not.
Without going into the whole A/B/C/D levels of clients - some people are cheap - they have a right to be cheap. And more than likely you don't want to do business with someone who doesn't value your services or want to pay you in the first place.
Those people who don't value web design services will purchase the cheap website with no business value. Only then will they learn that they made a mistake.

You don't have to go to school to be a designer. I prove that every time I sit in front of my computer. I have a degree in Professional Aeronautics, which is far from a design degree. But, you need to take the time to sit down and learn a craft if you want to do it. Slapping some junk together in some crap editor that kicks out AP divs that look like ass isn't the way to go, and you're doing a disservice to your clients as well as designers that actually give a damn about what they do.

Agreed wholeheartedly.
Nope, you don't have to go to school. I get resumes from people who went to school for it that are horrible. My belief is you either have it or you don't.

Clients care. That's all that matters. The only market for WYSIWYG built sites are for computer illiterates who don't know better and get duped.

Some clients don't care -- they are shopping nothing but price. But that's ok. It's their right.
There will always be good business and there will always be bad business. Without all the bad designers doing a disservice to clients, we wouldn't be making a living doing web design, would we?

 

[ronaldroe]

Without all the bad designers doing a disservice to clients, we wouldn't be making a living doing web design, would we?

Actually, we would. In fact, we'd likely be making more doing it. In any market, the low-end, budget option devalues the product as a whole. If a client doesn't know the difference, why would they pay me my rate when their cousin's girlfriend's brother will do it in iWeb for $50? So, now we have to sell our superior quality product at a lower price to draw people in. Sure, the clients may eventually realize their website is doing them no good, but a lot of times they don't. Even then, they aren't always willing to shell out more money for a new website.

It is my position that we should educate or turn away people who are devaluing the product we sell. It's entirely possible that they don't know, but after you tell them they will. Then, if they really care to be a part of the design community, they'll take the time to learn. If they don't, we've successfully weeded out another person who devalues what we do.

 

[Modern_Media]

You're right on a lot of factors.

Start up companies or newcomers to website design don't know what they are supposed to look for.
In my experience, they believe it's just a bunch of images and text and nothing more.

We don't quote prices over the phone because we want them in our office. We do educate our clients on what to look for and then it's a matter of price.

You'll get more people who value your services the longer you stay in business. Brand recognition = trust in your product.