Site builder?

Discussion in 'Web Design' started by marywallace66, Aug 3, 2011.

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  1. marywallace66

    marywallace66 New Member

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    I use a site builder and insert my own graphics into the builder. Does anyone else do this? There is increible software available form sites such as squarespace, easywebcontent.com, and wix. There is a number of them out there. Just wondering if anyone uses my approach to this sort of web design?
     
  2. ronaldroe

    ronaldroe Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Um...No. Are you doing this for clients, or for yourself? If it's just for you, feel free to continue on. If is for someone who is paying you to actually create a website, hide this information from them, and don't make any promises that sound anything like the following:

    - That the sites will look good
    - That the sites will look the same in various browsers
    - That search engines will be able to effectively index their websites
    - That you provide clean, compliant code
    - That your designs will load quickly
     
  3. Phreaddee

    Phreaddee Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I've used squarespace before and whilst it can produce something that looks OK, it feels like a "paint-by-numbers" artwork. and I found it very frustrating to do anything beyond the basics.

    As Ronald said, if this is for you personally than that isn't much of a drama, but I think folk being charged for this could get quite upset when they realise that it is so damn simple to build. Also anything out of the ordinary is just out of reach.

    and the code produced is horrible - truly horrible
     
  4. lansa

    lansa New Member

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    I am currenly using Moonfruit for my website but with it beinb entirely flash-based, their html version for mobile devices never displays correctly. I need to switch to another platform. What is a good website builder that will let me design for mobile devices as well? IS there a good free software out there? What are people using for webdesign these days?
     
  5. CaldwellYSR

    CaldwellYSR Member

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    People are using their brains and writing the code. Not being vegetables and dropping pictures into a program to do it for them.
     
  6. lansa

    lansa New Member

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    Wow, sorry for asking. Nice people here for sure.
     
  7. Phreaddee

    Phreaddee Super Moderator Staff Member

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    :) sometimes we are, sometime we aren't. but we are always honest.

    Maybe caldwell was having a bad hair day, but sufficiently enough he is saying the truth, there isn't really anything out there that is:-
    1. free
    2. good
    3. easy

    you can use things like weebly, etc etc but you would be hard pressed to find anyone professionally working in this field that uses such services regularly. in order to have those easy to use drag n drop style visual design services work they need to incorporate some pretty nasty code. they are not very customisable and beyond a basic site are pretty much useless.

    in answer to your question the majority would use either joomla, drupal or wordpress, or simple from scratch html sites. all three of those cms' are free and good. but there is no magic button with them. without basic knowledge of html, css (and php) you will struggle to get a handle on them. in my opinion of the three, wordpress is the simplest to get a handle on, with drupal probably the most difficult to get your head around. joomla always seems to win for me as the best, the learning curve isnt too steep and it is extremely customisable, it also has a good community of users who share and contribute.

    another one I use quite a lot is business catalyst, although this is a monthly paid SaaS type setup. It has a few frustrating quirks but is without a doubt the simplest to pass on to the client when finished. generally speaking I can spend just one afternoon with the client once the site is live and run them through the day to day operating of it...
     
  8. lansa

    lansa New Member

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    Thanks so much for the good reply. I am putting up a fairly simple site and am very pc savvy, yet I have not kept up with web design in a few years and I dont have the time to learn. I understand I cant expect too much from a drag n drop platform. I was just hoping to find something thats easy to learn so that I can have a functional website compatible with all platforms. I will look into the solutions you mentioned. Thanks again for your time!
     
  9. CaldwellYSR

    CaldwellYSR Member

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    Yeah I'm sorry bad morning. Didn't mean to take it out on you it's just so easy to be mad at faceless people instead of the people that actually make you mad :p
     
  10. lansa

    lansa New Member

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    Hey no worries. Its all good.
     
  11. Modern_Media

    Modern_Media New Member

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    My theory is this -- if you are taking time to create a website for a client, it doesn't matter what program you are using, you should be paid for your time.
    What you and your client agree to, that's between you and them I would assume.

    There is a market for every type of designer. The Internet is a VERY big piece of pie.

    Who cares what you use as long as it works for you.
     
  12. CaldwellYSR

    CaldwellYSR Member

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    it matters what you use because using drag-n-drop software to build a website puts out bad code and bad code breaks. You end up with sites that don't work right on all browsers. As web designers it is our responsibility to design good sites that live up to web standards so we can populate the web with well-written code.
     
  13. Modern_Media

    Modern_Media New Member

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    What about those people who are NOT web designers? Not everybody can afford to drop money on a website.

    I would argue the point of what software is used if a designer is claiming to be an industry standard professional but from the reads of this post, it doesn't sound like it.

    I've seen killer websites built with notepad than what many people build with Wix. There are more bad web/graphic designers out there than good -- Consider that a good thing, not a bad thing.
     
  14. CaldwellYSR

    CaldwellYSR Member

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    I don't really understand your argument here... Nobody has to drop money on a website? I'm a web designer (a beginner one sure but all the same) and I have spent exactly $0.00 on making websites. There are plenty of free programs for writing code and you can even use notepad or textedit and still make a great website. So it doesn't matter what software you use as long as you're writing the code yourself. Not using drag-n-drop software that puts out bad code.
     
  15. Phreaddee

    Phreaddee Super Moderator Staff Member

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    your notepad arguement is fundmentally flawed, as in reality you need to understand code, and the structure of a webpage before you can use notepad to create.

    wix on the other hand you can create a site after a big night out on the town, and from what I've seen thats probably what people are doing.

    I disagree with your idea that being more bad web developers is actually a good thing. flooding the market with BS is not ever a good thing. more good designers equates to more competition, which makes everyone lift their game, the further the good designers push themselves the further the divide between the good/bad sites grows. the more technically proficient websites that exist, the more customers see and the more customers desire that. this in turn pushes the bad developers out the back door as they cannot keep up with the demand. they go back to flipping burgers and we all live happily ever after.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2011
  16. Modern_Media

    Modern_Media New Member

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    This person asked a question and got slammed by designers. Most of them just sounded like they were beating their chests with pride.

    Argument or not -- wix, sitebuilder, dreamweaver, etc...if it works for you, use it.

    We can all sit here and say, "you aren't a designer if you use _____"
     
  17. CaldwellYSR

    CaldwellYSR Member

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    658


    You are missing the point of the argument. The argument isn't one software vs the other. I think everyone will agree that any text-editor will work just fine. The op was asking about a program where he drags images into the place he wants them and the program spits out code for him. This doesn't work. Plain and simple it just doesn't work... The code it puts out is not up to web standards, it is extremely fragile, and it isn't cross-browser compatible. Programs like this are holding back the internet. We are trying to help people here. but that is impossible to do if they are still using WYSIWYG editors.
     
  18. ronaldroe

    ronaldroe Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The people who are not web designers shouldn't be charging people to make websites, simple as that.

    I think it goes without saying that if you're using the tools of amateurs to charge people for the work of professionals, you really can't call yourself much of anything except a fraud.
     
  19. Modern_Media

    Modern_Media New Member

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    Not true at all -- don't tell me that you started your career as a professional website designer. Everyone starts somewhere.
    I find that a lot of people getting their start in web design come here for answers only to be slammed by those who are past the "beginner" stages.

    Honestly, I'm thankful for those who shouldn't be charging people to make websites. Those clients who come to us looking to improve their current websites (after shopping the lowest bidder) are more grateful for the work we do as opposed to having unrealistic expectations.

    Maybe, maybe not. I used to code websites by hand but later learned that it's easier to custom build my own CMS templates for my clients using Joomla!

    Wix.com and sitebuilder are tools for anyone to pick up and start building. If they can find a way to turn a profit using these tools, well then good for them. Who are we to say they can't?

    Whether they should or should not is really an opinion, isn't it?
    That's like telling someone because they haven't gone to school to become a chef, they shouldn't be cooking.

    There are many "businesses" where I live that try to promote professional website design. Are they professionals? Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. That's subjective to the person who they are doing business with.

    We can all scoff at beginners who wish to use Wix or Sitebuilder (or whatever "drag and drop" tool there is) but in reality, those who want to truly advance don't have a choice but to learn how to code xHTML/CSS.

    My company is looking to hire a CSS/xHTML developer -- would we hire someone who builds a site using WIX? Absolutely not.
    I don't think people should use pre-built templates to design websites. But that's just my opinion. There are people doing it - and doing it quite well while turning a good profit. It works for them.

    Some people may not care that they are getting less than quality design -- I say let them. There is a market for Wix builders...Great.
    Let those who want poor quality buy poor quality. We want the clients who demand quality and are willing to pay for what a website is worth!
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2011
  20. CaldwellYSR

    CaldwellYSR Member

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    EXACTLY! There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a beginner and having "dumb" questions. We've all been there and we've all had them (hell I still have them... and often). We are trying to push people who want to be web designers to learn how to design websites. If you're only using WYSIWYG editors and you don't know code then you're not even a beginner. You're deluded. When I first started out I looked at all kinds of WYSIWYG editors but I quickly realized that isn't the way to do it. You aren't accomplishing anything, you aren't learning anything, and you're populating the web with poorly coded sites if you're only using WYSIWYG editors. There are things that machines can do for us.... things that can be automated to happen every single time exactly right. Then there are things that require creativity. Arts... Web design is an art that simply can't be automated by a program to work every time under every circumstance. That takes a web developer and if you want to be a web developer the quicker you realize that the better... for you and for the web.
     

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