brynmuzika
Member
Can anyone please tell me the very basic cost of a website made by a newbie? With CMS application. Thanks! 
Website cost
- Thread starter brynmuzika
- Start date
egofirm
New Member
Depends on what sort of website you're talking about and the kind of CMS behind it. By "sort" I mean the website's specialisation so to speak (e.g. corporate site, personal etc). If you're a newbie, looking to build a portfolio, I personally wouldn't charge much -- just enough to reasonably cover your time spent in front of the screen. So say if you spend an overall 8-10 hours working on it, you may finally charge your client something along the lines of say $200 or so. But then it once again depends.
brynmuzika
Member
@egofirm: Thanks, but I'll share this experience to you. When my client and I were negotiating about the project cost, she asked me how much was my basic rate then I answered for about $200 - $250 it depends on the size or the "sort" that you meant. But I based that cost rate on some websites and forums. Then my client was shocked about my said rate, coz' some of their friends told them that the basic website costs for only 100$. I assumed this costs only for websites like; blog, or template ready websites w/ CMS behind it. In fact, I made their website without any CMS application as in "Hardcore Coding" with XHTML, CSS, and PHP only. Can you imagine that? I finished their websites(including her husband's website) for about 3 months. Our negotiation for the website cost ends up with an agreement of a 100$ website cost w/ contract, including her husband's so 200$ all in all(2 websites). But I had no choice, they are my clients right? Did I make a big mistake? Should I have regret it?
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I'll admit that I'm still a bit of a newbie, and that
I personally do find pricing to be one of the most frustrating things about freelancing.
For one I've found that it's somewhat common for people to try and barter with freelancers over prices, this is something that is not considered acceptable in many other situations (traditional retail for example) in the US. So it can be really tricky, especially when you are new, because it's not really a big part of our culture, assuming that you are from the US (maybe it's different for some of the people on here from other countries). Of course you could have a no bartering policy, but that could lead to you losing out on some valuable clients as easily as it could protect you from working for chump change.
By charging them $100 for each site when you quoted $200-$250 you are basically giving them a very very large discount. Now maybe that's all the particular site you were doing for them was worth, but that really really depends on what exactly was going into the site.
Maybe these people just really don't understand how much work goes into getting a site up and running, I think that's a common issue. But some people really just are cheapskates and want to get as much work out of you for as little as possible.
Most websites cost more than $100 unless we're talking about something very simple, and very small.
It also sounds like you didn't determine costs until the site was made. I think most people will likely agree that it's a good idea to reach some sort of decision about how much things will cost ahead of time. This could be a hard figure such as $200, or an hourly rate with some estimate of how long it will take to complete. In my experience most clients prefer to just have a fixed rate based on estimated time, but some clients don't mind just paying hourly.
You also do have to weigh whether you think you are really being "short-changed", vs. whether charging much less than you'd like could be a good "foot in the door" sort of experience, and even win you a repeat customer, which might even be willing to pay more for future projects.
I personally do find pricing to be one of the most frustrating things about freelancing.
For one I've found that it's somewhat common for people to try and barter with freelancers over prices, this is something that is not considered acceptable in many other situations (traditional retail for example) in the US. So it can be really tricky, especially when you are new, because it's not really a big part of our culture, assuming that you are from the US (maybe it's different for some of the people on here from other countries). Of course you could have a no bartering policy, but that could lead to you losing out on some valuable clients as easily as it could protect you from working for chump change.
By charging them $100 for each site when you quoted $200-$250 you are basically giving them a very very large discount. Now maybe that's all the particular site you were doing for them was worth, but that really really depends on what exactly was going into the site.
Maybe these people just really don't understand how much work goes into getting a site up and running, I think that's a common issue. But some people really just are cheapskates and want to get as much work out of you for as little as possible.
Most websites cost more than $100 unless we're talking about something very simple, and very small.
It also sounds like you didn't determine costs until the site was made. I think most people will likely agree that it's a good idea to reach some sort of decision about how much things will cost ahead of time. This could be a hard figure such as $200, or an hourly rate with some estimate of how long it will take to complete. In my experience most clients prefer to just have a fixed rate based on estimated time, but some clients don't mind just paying hourly.
You also do have to weigh whether you think you are really being "short-changed", vs. whether charging much less than you'd like could be a good "foot in the door" sort of experience, and even win you a repeat customer, which might even be willing to pay more for future projects.
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brynmuzika
Member
Thanks for your reply aracaris. Actually my client is a local client residing here in our town in the philippines. Just to update this to you, the current 1 US dollar is equivallent to 46 Phil. peso. I did'nt complaint it to my clients verbally because I also understand them that maybe they really don't know that it's not simple to deploy a website. But I've got nothing to do we've already signed the contract and my clients are that smart to make me deal with them for they are that business minded.
All I have to do next is to study more, practice, and negotiate with the exact baisc cost and be more proficient on my works. Actually I'm on the finalization stage right now in my project. By the way, my client just asked me to add some features in his website which is not that easy to work on. But, still they are my clients. Do I have to ask them for an additional charge?
All I have to do next is to study more, practice, and negotiate with the exact baisc cost and be more proficient on my works. Actually I'm on the finalization stage right now in my project. By the way, my client just asked me to add some features in his website which is not that easy to work on. But, still they are my clients. Do I have to ask them for an additional charge?
I'm kind of trying to tackle how to deal with that issue right now. Sometimes I'll have a client whom will sort of downplay just how many features they want on a page, probably without even meaning to do so, or whom leaves features that they wanted on the page out until after I give them a quote.
Then I have to be careful to explain that those features will result in a greater work load, and that I do need to get paid for that extra work.
Usually people are understanding about this, but there's a new client I'm working with that has tended to add more and more features, and now I have to wait and see how they respond, and you'll not generally know how a new client will respond.
Just try to be as courteous as you can with them, but let them know that new features are more work for you, and you are after all not a charity (probably don't want to use that word, but basically that's the idea). Somehow you have to make a living too.
If the result is them trying to get something else out of you for nothing, and to keep putting pressure on you to do so, when you've made it clear that you're a business and that's not how you work, then they are just trying to take advantage of you.
I don't think that this is an easy thing to deal with personally, again I personally find the money/costs issues surrounding freelancing to be one of the most stressful parts of the business.
Then I have to be careful to explain that those features will result in a greater work load, and that I do need to get paid for that extra work.
Usually people are understanding about this, but there's a new client I'm working with that has tended to add more and more features, and now I have to wait and see how they respond, and you'll not generally know how a new client will respond.
Just try to be as courteous as you can with them, but let them know that new features are more work for you, and you are after all not a charity (probably don't want to use that word, but basically that's the idea). Somehow you have to make a living too.
If the result is them trying to get something else out of you for nothing, and to keep putting pressure on you to do so, when you've made it clear that you're a business and that's not how you work, then they are just trying to take advantage of you.
I don't think that this is an easy thing to deal with personally, again I personally find the money/costs issues surrounding freelancing to be one of the most stressful parts of the business.
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egofirm
New Member
brynmuzika -- there's a saying that the "first pancake is always a mess", so that's ok in a way on a one-off project or whatever. Just know your worth and charge accordingly, adopting a serious tone right from the start when it comes to talking money. I don't know what $200 in the Philippines can buy, but either way, base your costs on time, creativity and effort put into your project/s.
If your client asks for new features late in the project, which were not discussed initially or were not included in the initial functionality (e.g. adding a user-registration and handling routine to for example a real estate IDX/RETS-based website) -- you should make it clear that these may take a major change (having to add user registration modules etc) and the costs must rise accordingly.
On the other hand, if you're working with open-source engines like Wordpress or Joomla, these shouldn't pose much of a problem unless you're writing out the template yourself, but then it's a different story.
If your client asks for new features late in the project, which were not discussed initially or were not included in the initial functionality (e.g. adding a user-registration and handling routine to for example a real estate IDX/RETS-based website) -- you should make it clear that these may take a major change (having to add user registration modules etc) and the costs must rise accordingly.
On the other hand, if you're working with open-source engines like Wordpress or Joomla, these shouldn't pose much of a problem unless you're writing out the template yourself, but then it's a different story.
Web1
New Member
fees
Yes can be tricky when giving clients an up front total cost, and yep they so often ask for more complex elements later and it can be hard to allow extra fees for them, its best to make it clear in writing, email for example, what you are providing and what will be the limit of features/pages, so you can ask for further fees when they add extra later.
Or sometimes a client can be undecisive over colours and style, so try to get a good idea of the look and feel they want, or they can get you going in circles ! I made plenty of costing errors, it takes time to get a feel for what is accurate. Dont work for peanuts, thats the most discouraging) be fair to yourself. Sites with backend cms should be way more than $200 unles you are using something off the shelf like Icy Pheonix, Joomla, and are not doing much customising.
Yes can be tricky when giving clients an up front total cost, and yep they so often ask for more complex elements later and it can be hard to allow extra fees for them, its best to make it clear in writing, email for example, what you are providing and what will be the limit of features/pages, so you can ask for further fees when they add extra later.
Or sometimes a client can be undecisive over colours and style, so try to get a good idea of the look and feel they want, or they can get you going in circles ! I made plenty of costing errors, it takes time to get a feel for what is accurate. Dont work for peanuts, thats the most discouraging
) be fair to yourself. Sites with backend cms should be way more than $200 unles you are using something off the shelf like Icy Pheonix, Joomla, and are not doing much customising.I think that the recession probably has a big role to play in sites going for so little. But I also just think it's that people whom need a website built just have no idea how much education, and time it can take to build a decent site.
A lot of people are really just getting desperate work, and many are willing to take pay cuts, even steep ones because it's either that or just not having work. I know I've kept my prices on the low side both because I'm just starting to break into the industry, but also because it seems like a lot of people are finding they have to drop their prices to keep/gain clients.
Still, I'm only willing to go so low, if I wanted to work for minimum wage, I'd go work at McDonalds! This takes a lot of training, and isn't just something you learn and then are for the most part done with your learning, you'll fail eventually if you approach the business in that way, you have to keep learning continually. Plus starting a freelance business does cost money.
I know several times I've quoted somewhat small sites at around $200 only to get told that's too much, or not hear back from the person after that.
A lot of people are really just getting desperate work, and many are willing to take pay cuts, even steep ones because it's either that or just not having work. I know I've kept my prices on the low side both because I'm just starting to break into the industry, but also because it seems like a lot of people are finding they have to drop their prices to keep/gain clients.
Still, I'm only willing to go so low, if I wanted to work for minimum wage, I'd go work at McDonalds! This takes a lot of training, and isn't just something you learn and then are for the most part done with your learning, you'll fail eventually if you approach the business in that way, you have to keep learning continually. Plus starting a freelance business does cost money.
I know several times I've quoted somewhat small sites at around $200 only to get told that's too much, or not hear back from the person after that.
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3dmagicaldesign
New Member
Totally agree!
What about the revisions to the work?
What about the normal extra work that you have to develop on any project?
What about a nice support for your client after you finish the project?
A price like this really makes it difficult for our industry.
One of the problems is that people see adverts for websites for $100 so they think this is all they should pay. What they don't always realise is that a $100 website is VERY basic: maybe a homepage, an about us page and a contact page only.
A professional looking site costs a lot more. It's a problem when you lack experience though (even if you are good), because those who are wiling to pay more will go to someone with a good reputation.
A professional looking site costs a lot more. It's a problem when you lack experience though (even if you are good), because those who are wiling to pay more will go to someone with a good reputation.
Yes I agree, even when you're a freelancer you can get stuck with that old catch 22 of needing experience to get the work you need to get experience. Really though, I think this is less of an issue with freelancing than with getting hired by most companies now a days, whom will likely want you to have years of professional experience all ready. Yes, a lot of people will want someone with a good reputation, a lot more work samples in their portfolio, and good references, but at least as a freelancer you might be able to start off doing work for friends and family and branch out from there.
brynmuzika
Member
@mrandrei: The type of website I was designing for my client was a dynamic one. Those are coded without using any CMS applications. I made their websites coded with XHTML, CSS, MySQL and PHP all by myself(database driven). And this only costs $100 each for each website. It took me 3 months to finish all. By the way I was the one who started the thread in this forum.
It's a very frustrating experience.
Here are my projects:
http://www.edzguitarworkshop.com/
http://www.soundhire.edzguitarworkshop.com/
http://www.redsunledtech.com/
Guys, I would like to thank you all for your replies coz' it's a big help for me. Please give some feedback, comments, or suggestions in my works if these really worth to cost for only $100 per website.
Thanks
3dmagicaldesign
New Member
I can't believe it!! did you develop each one of these website per $100 each? from now on you will be my developer, are you interested? lol
OK, after reading this post I'm convinced you have seriously been ripped off, that sounds like A LOT of work for only $100, unless the standard pay for web-designers where you live is very significantly lower than it is in the US. It really looks like you put in a whole lot of work for very very little in return. Even I would be charging a lot more for sites like the ones you've listed, and in my opinion I charge on the lowish side.
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3dmagicaldesign
New Member
Where are you from? I think not even a guy from the cheapest part in India would have developed these projects for that money. To be honest, it is very difficult for me to believe this.
brynmuzika
Member
yeah guys, very UNBELIEVABLE right?? hugh... After a very vast work that I made, I only charged them for that very small amount. When we negotiate about the proj. cost my client asked me for that BIG discount because I'm still a newbie for this business and a fresh graduate of BS Information Technology. lol
@3dmagicaldesign: I'm from the Philippines. very shocking really shocking and yes you should believe this. I'm not joking, even my friends who are in this kind of industry were shocked also. Thanks for viewing my works by the way.
Well, I've got nothing to do at all. Better luck for me next time.
@3dmagicaldesign: I'm from the Philippines. very shocking really shocking and yes you should believe this. I'm not joking, even my friends who are in this kind of industry were shocked also. Thanks for viewing my works by the way.
Well, I've got nothing to do at all. Better luck for me next time.