You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Table less website design?
- Thread starter james169
- Start date
Wickedself
New Member
Table less sites.....
You should not use tables for aligning your content.
But tables are not something to avoid.
You should not use tables for aligning your content.
But tables are not something to avoid.
Has anyone ever developed website completely table less?
I think most designers these days shy away from using tables as means for a layout. If you want to make your site flexible and editable you can't really stick to a table grid.
cmjvulavala
New Member
My old website didnt use any tables at all... i never fully developed it but you can take a look at the tableless design @ http://cmjphp.mav.bz
I personally don't think its clumsy at all, its a lot easier than designing with tables and you need a lot less code.
I personally don't think its clumsy at all, its a lot easier than designing with tables and you need a lot less code.
You can use css and tables together, its not a one or the other proposition. I use css, div's and tables in my designs, because it helps to ensure cross browser compatibility.
Tables were not originally intended for website design, but they work and work well, so I use them.
What matters is the end result. If you can design a website that your clients will like and their intended audience can view, then it doesn't matter if you use crayons to design the website.
Tables were not originally intended for website design, but they work and work well, so I use them.
What matters is the end result. If you can design a website that your clients will like and their intended audience can view, then it doesn't matter if you use crayons to design the website.
cmjvulavala
New Member
JayT.... tables are to be used for presenting data; that is the only proper use for them. They are designed to present data in a readable format... they should never be used to make any part of your layouts. CSS and DIVs are the best way to make a layout... anything that can be done using table can be done easier and quicker using DIVs/CSS and a whole lot more can be done with CSS as well.
Well, I don't know what to tell you except I've been using tables in my website design business for years now and have earned a fair amount doing it. I get referrals and repeat business from my clients, so I have to assume that they're happy with the work I've done for them. That's the bottom line isn't it - making your customers happy?
When someone comes to you wanting a website designed they don't care HOW you make it, that's your job. They're interested only in the finished product. As a Web designer you use whatever is at your legal disposal to use, to ensure that the customer gets what they're paying for.
When someone comes to you wanting a website designed they don't care HOW you make it, that's your job. They're interested only in the finished product. As a Web designer you use whatever is at your legal disposal to use, to ensure that the customer gets what they're paying for.
rarepearldesign
New Member
check out my newly pre-launched company site @ http://www.ararepearl.com
There are ZERO tables in that design, pure box model xhtml and css.
There are ZERO tables in that design, pure box model xhtml and css.
RPD,
Content is as much a part of Web Design as the pretty pictures and do-dads. This is especially true when it is YOUR website design - website.
I read the first paragraph on your website and I'd like to give you my impression of what I just read. OK, here goes:
I get the impression that you're trying to sound just a little bit more than what you really are. People can sense when someone is blowing sunshine up their skirts.
If you want to get website design work then let your work speak for you.
Now, you may have just added all this stuff to give content to the page in order to see what it would look like. I hope that's what you did, because there's a lot on it that I would consider to be, well... sophomoric for a legitimate website design company accustomed to working on million dollar websites.
White text on dark backgrounds are hard to read. OK, if you're 19 or 20 years old, and if this is age group you're trying to attract then - right on dude.
Content is as much a part of Web Design as the pretty pictures and do-dads. This is especially true when it is YOUR website design - website.
I read the first paragraph on your website and I'd like to give you my impression of what I just read. OK, here goes:
"At Rare Pearl Design (RPD as we call ourselves), we're a group of talented individuals accustomed to working on million dollar websites (you can tell this by the fanciful words and terminology we've used). However, we have decided to do you little people a favor by agreeing to design websites for you too, but at very reasonable costs."
TRANSLATION: We're broke and we'll take anything. Please give - God Bless.
I get the impression that you're trying to sound just a little bit more than what you really are. People can sense when someone is blowing sunshine up their skirts.
If you want to get website design work then let your work speak for you.
Now, you may have just added all this stuff to give content to the page in order to see what it would look like. I hope that's what you did, because there's a lot on it that I would consider to be, well... sophomoric for a legitimate website design company accustomed to working on million dollar websites.
White text on dark backgrounds are hard to read. OK, if you're 19 or 20 years old, and if this is age group you're trying to attract then - right on dude.
rarepearldesign
New Member
RPD,
Content is as much a part of Web Design as the pretty pictures and do-dads. This is especially true when it is YOUR website design - website.
I read the first paragraph on your website and I'd like to give you my impression of what I just read. OK, here goes:
I get the impression that you're trying to sound just a little bit more than what you really are. People can sense when someone is blowing sunshine up their skirts.
If you want to get website design work then let your work speak for you.
Now, you may have just added all this stuff to give content to the page in order to see what it would look like. I hope that's what you did, because there's a lot on it that I would consider to be, well... sophomoric for a legitimate website design company accustomed to working on million dollar websites.
White text on dark backgrounds are hard to read. OK, if you're 19 or 20 years old, and if this is age group you're trying to attract then - right on dude.
It's not million dollar websites I work one, its .net applications. That's a fact and can provide you with references. I am an .net architect full-time and freelance on the side, trying to eventually move off on my own thing with this company.
I am not broke, again .net architect full-time, well into the 6 figures there. All I am doing is offering to build the same high quality websites at prices less than the local competition charge ($10-20K).
I feel you're being a little aggressive towards me for some reason, not sure what I did there to deserve that but I will take your criticism as respectful.
1. The white on blue is something I am still playing with, but for now I am leaving it as is.
2. Whats sophomoric about it, besides my bad logo (being designed)? Honest question.
3. As for letting my work do the talking, thats what the promotion is all about, again, just trying to get some work to fill the portfolio at the moment. Offering great results and professional experience to deliver them a great site for really low costs right now until I go full-time.
4. The content will be edited soon, this was my first pass and wanted to get some feedback on the "design", my content writer hasn't got to it yet.
Anyways, thanks for the comments. Harsh or positive I can take it.
RPD, Your Web design is OK, although I don't like white text on dark backgrounds, but your content needs more work in my opinion. You should have someone unfamiliar with websites and preferably someone who you don't know to read it and get their opinion.
I see that you have made some changes to your site and that is good. But I think it can stand a bit more tweaking. It's not always necessary to say a whole lot when you're trying to sell something. In this case your website services.
Talk about features and benefits, and then let your work speak for itself. For instance, if one of your features is helping your clients obtain a good Google ranking, then show them. Provide them with an example of a business or organization that you've helped in this area. Give them the keywords and let them try Googling it for themselves. Seeing is believing.
Not everyone who needs a website will be familiar with the acronyms and the jargon we use, so these will not have any meaning to them. The last thing you want to do is to confuse your visitors or make them feel stupid. For instance instead of writing "seo", write Search Engine Optimization (SEO). You could create a page that list some of the more common website design terms and what they mean. This may be helpful to your clients as they will hear some of these terms as the project progresses.
Things that aren't absolutely neccessary to convincing someone to do business with you should not be on your website. I don't think that any of the items under the menu in your right column has a place on your website.
The W3C buttons may seem like something that would impress a visitor, but I think they impress ourselves more. Visit some of the larger and more successful website designers websites and you'll not see them. These buttons also a link off of your site, and this is something I don't recommend. When someone comes to your website, you should not provide them with an invitation to leave.
I also noticed that you reference money or price quite often on your Home page. I would minimize this and focus the attention more on the features and benefits of using my Web design company instead. For most people, price ranks low on the list of priorities when they are looking to buy something. Service, Quality and Value are more important to people than price. Even a poor man will find the money somewhere in order to get these features.
You bring up your company's mission, but you failed to mention what it is. You said that you see it as being a problem in the industry. A company vision should be positive and instill confidence in a perspective client. I don't think that I would include the word "problem" in the same sentence as my company vision or goal. The word "problem" is a powerful keyword and you don't want to have it associated with your company.
I didn't go to any of your other pages, but I think you have a breadcrumb trail on your website. I see "Home" near the top just under the header. You may consider adding "Your are here:" and maybe put a line underneath it or a lighter color background to help it stand out more.
As always, you'll have to decide what is best for your business and what will best help you acheive you goals. I wish you success.
JayT
I see that you have made some changes to your site and that is good. But I think it can stand a bit more tweaking. It's not always necessary to say a whole lot when you're trying to sell something. In this case your website services.
Talk about features and benefits, and then let your work speak for itself. For instance, if one of your features is helping your clients obtain a good Google ranking, then show them. Provide them with an example of a business or organization that you've helped in this area. Give them the keywords and let them try Googling it for themselves. Seeing is believing.
Not everyone who needs a website will be familiar with the acronyms and the jargon we use, so these will not have any meaning to them. The last thing you want to do is to confuse your visitors or make them feel stupid. For instance instead of writing "seo", write Search Engine Optimization (SEO). You could create a page that list some of the more common website design terms and what they mean. This may be helpful to your clients as they will hear some of these terms as the project progresses.
Things that aren't absolutely neccessary to convincing someone to do business with you should not be on your website. I don't think that any of the items under the menu in your right column has a place on your website.
The W3C buttons may seem like something that would impress a visitor, but I think they impress ourselves more. Visit some of the larger and more successful website designers websites and you'll not see them. These buttons also a link off of your site, and this is something I don't recommend. When someone comes to your website, you should not provide them with an invitation to leave.
I also noticed that you reference money or price quite often on your Home page. I would minimize this and focus the attention more on the features and benefits of using my Web design company instead. For most people, price ranks low on the list of priorities when they are looking to buy something. Service, Quality and Value are more important to people than price. Even a poor man will find the money somewhere in order to get these features.
You bring up your company's mission, but you failed to mention what it is. You said that you see it as being a problem in the industry. A company vision should be positive and instill confidence in a perspective client. I don't think that I would include the word "problem" in the same sentence as my company vision or goal. The word "problem" is a powerful keyword and you don't want to have it associated with your company.
I didn't go to any of your other pages, but I think you have a breadcrumb trail on your website. I see "Home" near the top just under the header. You may consider adding "Your are here:" and maybe put a line underneath it or a lighter color background to help it stand out more.
As always, you'll have to decide what is best for your business and what will best help you acheive you goals. I wish you success.
JayT
rarepearldesign
New Member
RPD, Your Web design is OK, although I don't like white text on dark backgrounds, but your content needs more work in my opinion. You should have someone unfamiliar with websites and preferably someone who you don't know to read it and get their opinion.
I see that you have made some changes to your site and that is good. But I think it can stand a bit more tweaking. It's not always necessary to say a whole lot when you're trying to sell something. In this case your website services.
Talk about features and benefits, and then let your work speak for itself. For instance, if one of your features is helping your clients obtain a good Google ranking, then show them. Provide them with an example of a business or organization that you've helped in this area. Give them the keywords and let them try Googling it for themselves. Seeing is believing.
Not everyone who needs a website will be familiar with the acronyms and the jargon we use, so these will not have any meaning to them. The last thing you want to do is to confuse your visitors or make them feel stupid. For instance instead of writing "seo", write Search Engine Optimization (SEO). You could create a page that list some of the more common website design terms and what they mean. This may be helpful to your clients as they will hear some of these terms as the project progresses.
Things that aren't absolutely neccessary to convincing someone to do business with you should not be on your website. I don't think that any of the items under the menu in your right column has a place on your website.
The W3C buttons may seem like something that would impress a visitor, but I think they impress ourselves more. Visit some of the larger and more successful website designers websites and you'll not see them. These buttons also a link off of your site, and this is something I don't recommend. When someone comes to your website, you should not provide them with an invitation to leave.
I also noticed that you reference money or price quite often on your Home page. I would minimize this and focus the attention more on the features and benefits of using my Web design company instead. For most people, price ranks low on the list of priorities when they are looking to buy something. Service, Quality and Value are more important to people than price. Even a poor man will find the money somewhere in order to get these features.
You bring up your company's mission, but you failed to mention what it is. You said that you see it as being a problem in the industry. A company vision should be positive and instill confidence in a perspective client. I don't think that I would include the word "problem" in the same sentence as my company vision or goal. The word "problem" is a powerful keyword and you don't want to have it associated with your company.
I didn't go to any of your other pages, but I think you have a breadcrumb trail on your website. I see "Home" near the top just under the header. You may consider adding "Your are here:" and maybe put a line underneath it or a lighter color background to help it stand out more.
As always, you'll have to decide what is best for your business and what will best help you acheive you goals. I wish you success.
JayT
1. Content has been edited
2. This is a pre-launch of our site to offer a promotion right now. The site will be completed, content changed, many pages added before the official launch.
3. Official site will not talk of price, I typically quote per project, and the content will be professionally written.
Again, thanks for the comments, but again, this is just a temporary promotion launch of the site, not the real deal.
Thanks for being much more respectful in your tone this time, I appreciate it.