Stop messing with me!

Discussion in 'Web Hosting and Domain Names' started by Vaelor, Oct 24, 2005.

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  1. Vaelor

    Vaelor New Member

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    I just need to vent a little about domain name "buyers" for a moment...

    You know what really gets my back up? When somebody sees that you've got domains for sale, and on the site it very clearly says "Interested in purchasing this great domain? Click here to make an offer. All reasonable offers considered." and no price is listed. And then, they turn around and send you an email like this one:-

    "Hello,

    Will it be possible for you to forward us your asking price for the domain and record of traffic it recevied? We do not wish to do any nagotiation and will either reject or accept your asking price, so please make it final. We did effect an appraisal on your domain and will forward it to you for FREE for your prompt response after we hear from you. If we do purchase the domain, it will be done via escrow, fees paid by us.

    Thanking you.

    Customer service,"


    I mean, what the hell is that?! Like some kind of ticket book lottery - pick a number, and if you pick the right number, you win that amount, otherwise you get nothing!!

    What does one do in a situation like this?! If I had a set asking price in mind, I'd have it up on the site, instead of "All reasonable offers considered"!! So my options are, pick a number that's too low, and lose a great domain for far less than what it's potentially worth to somebody else, pick too high and blow the sale, or refuse to pick! I chose option C. It really feels like bamboo under the fingernails to know that I might have just blown a big money sale, but not half as painful as if I'd undervalued myself only to find out I could have got ten times more from another buyer. I'd rather sit on it until somebody serious comes along who isn't going to dick me around with these kinds of games.

    So frustrating. Anybody that knows anything about domains knows that professional paid appraisals are a scam anyway. Ten different companies will give you ten completely contrasting values for the same domain (oh, unless those ten happen to be all using that same free domain appraisal automated software that's going around!), and ultimately a domain is still only worth as much as somebody is willing to pay for it!

    {rolls eyes and sighs}
     
  2. SiteExpress

    SiteExpress New Member

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    The problem is, that you are trying to sll a product that has no value. Niether you, nor the potential buyer are willing to put a value on the domain. You both want "The most for your money." They don't want to offer a $2, when you may have taken $1. Vice Versa for you.

    Why not just step up and place a price range on a domain. Example: $1-$10.

    Then at least someone is at least taking the first step towards the start of a negotiation. If your confident enough in your product, then you should be able to get the price you have in mind. At least then, a buyer will have some place to start.
     
  3. Vaelor

    Vaelor New Member

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    Why don't I place a price range on my domains? You've answered the question right there yourself - it's a product that has no value.

    Say I put a price up in the vicinity of $100. The person that saw the domain and would have been willing to pay $1,000 for it just hit the jackpot, and I've been ripped off. If I put up $1,000 though, then the person who was only hoping to spend about $100 will be utterly discouraged, and won't even email me to see if I'd be willing to take $200 for it.

    As far as actually listing a hard range, that's pointless in the end. If you say you're willing to sell something for between $20-$200, potential buyers will ALWAYS offer you the $20 - it's simple human nature. May as well just say for sale at $20 in that case, and face the above dilemma of losing it to the guy who would have paid $200!

    As for my confidence in my product, the problem is, I don't have a price in mind! I'm like a guy who grew up in the desert who finds he needs to sell a boat - I couldn't begin to know what it's worth, but I know how many dollars it would take to hand it over without thinking twice!

    But nobody is even willing to even hint at an offer. Not even an offensively low one. Right now, I'd cherish even an email saying "I'll give you $10 for this domain", so at least I could take a stance and reject it. But nobody's even willing to pick a figure and haggle over it. It's always with the "How much do you want for this?"... well, how much do I want for it? I want ten million dollars!! I know that nothing I could ever say or do will get me ten million dollars for it, but that's what I want! =P

    But when you take away my unrealistic dreams of what I would want for it, and specifically look at what I expect to get for it, or what I think it's worth, or what I could be talked into selling it for, or what kind of offer I wouldn't even think twice about accepting, and so on, and so on, and so on, my unfortunate answer still always ends up being "I don't know!".

    And all that aside... what arrogance is this "You don't know me from Santa Claus, but I refuse to negotiate, so pick a final figure right now and I'll either accept or refuse it" attitude?? I'm sorry, no, where I come from, you don't do business like that. You want my domain, I want your money - let's barter.
     
  4. ian

    ian Administrator Staff Member

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    Whenever I make an offer for a domain, I always email a price of what I am willing to pay.
     
  5. xytor

    xytor New Member

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    Why not make an auction-type thing?
    Not a TRUE auction, but more of an asking price auction. Where you always have the final say.
    So, instead of having a dillemma, the buyers will haggle it over within themselves, and if the price is still too low, you can always decline.

    I think, though, that with an auction-type system, you will see what buyers are willing to pay much easier than a one-on-one type thing.
     
  6. Vaelor

    Vaelor New Member

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    Ian, that's exactly what I wish those that express interest in my domains would do... that's what I'd do if I were buying! I don't see why so many people seem to have a hard time with that concept! =(

    xytor, I'm not sure how I'd implement something like that. If I'm understanding you correctly, that process would involve having several buyers interested in a domain, and making offers for it, and then hence trying to "outbid" eachother for that domain which I would then sell to the highest bidder, or decline sale if the highest bid still doesn't reach a figure that makes me want to sell it.

    However, as I mentioned above, I only get rare, sporadic enquiries about my domains, and they're always "How much do you want for this?", never making an offer. Could you please elaborate further on your how suggestion could be helpful in my situation?
     
  7. xytor

    xytor New Member

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    Oh, I assumed that there would be more than one person interested.
    Why not, then, go to other domain sites (emphasis on the plurality), and do a little bit of research on how the qualities of a domain govern its price.

    For example, see how much a domain like "www.clothes.com" sells for in contrast to "www.growth-hormone_freaks_usaLive.com"

    pretend to be a buyer, if you have to.

    and based on your findings, it will be easier to offer a price.
    Taditionally, the seller offers the initial price, anyway.
     
  8. Vaelor

    Vaelor New Member

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    111
    If you have a read through this thread, and other domain related threads here (this thread in particular is a good recent example of domain values discussion), you'll see that my dilemma is that I don't know what sort of initial price to offer, and I don't want to set it too low because I feel that compared to 90% of the domains I see people selling (the aforementioned thread being an excellent example), I feel that my domains are really quite valuable. But nor do I want to list a price that might be too high, because then I will drastically discourage buyers who may have been willing to offer a lower price that I might have been willing to accept, or at least negotiate over.

    Posing as a buyer for other similar domains and seeing what other people are asking for them sounds like an excellent strategy in theory, but where would one go for realistic, professional, accurate answers? I've seen people asking for $100,000 for a domain like eBiz-UK-2005-MedzOnline.info, and I've seen people offer fairly decent domains, like say, OnlineHardwareStore.net, for $30. Because a domain's value is really only equal to what somebody is willing to pay for it, simply seeing what others in my situation are unrealistically hoping to get for their domains isn't really an accurate gauge to go by.

    If there were somewhere to go to see what people have actually sold their domains for - ie. they offered, somebody bought and paid for it and the deal was done - that would be much better, because what I need to know here is not what people are asking for their domains, but moreso what people are willing to actually realistically pay for them.

    But if such a resource exists, I've never heard of it. Do you know of any sites I could check out what prices pre-owned domains have sold for?
     
  9. xytor

    xytor New Member

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    Maybe some research on google will help? If you don't find such a resource, then you do have a dillemma.
    But you really don't have anything to lose by sending them what you think would be a good deal for that domain. If they decline, thats ok. Imagine they never existed. It sure beats wasting all this energy trying to find a way around.
     
  10. Vaelor

    Vaelor New Member

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    111
    Heh, well, again, you're basing your advice on the presumption that I have at least some vague approximate concept of what a "good deal" would be - I don't! I know what amount of money I'd just laugh at and wouldn't even consider on my most desperate days, and I know the kind of figure that I'd jump at and not think twice about accepting. But as what would be "a good deal for that domain", we're just going around in circles here - I wouldn't even know where to start, and I refuse to just pluck a random number out of nowhere.

    And really, I'm not wasting a lot of energy here - the domains aren't going anywhere fast, and it's not like my time or effort is so valuable that I can't afford to spend a few minutes on a forum discussing the concept! =)

    If even one person sees this thread and can point me in the right direction to some information that might help me sell even one of my domains, it was worth my time to post here. =)
     
  11. xytor

    xytor New Member

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    Your domains are pretty good. i would say somewhere between 300-800 dollars
    thats how much i'd be willing to pay, anyway

    P.S. the only thing that separates those values from being random is that it is what i would pay if i wanted one of your domains and had the money :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2005
  12. Vaelor

    Vaelor New Member

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    111
    Which domain(s) are you referring to? I know they're not all as good as eachother... or are you saying $300 for the worst of them, and up to $800 for the best?

    See, now, I have a basis for value. I know what one person would be willing to pay for them (though if you'd mind being more specific as to which domains you think are worth what, I'd really appreciate the feedback!). If I could now just get a few more people to do the same thing (as you said, multiple sources make for more reliable information), I'd be well on the way to actually being able to place a value on my domains, and next time some idiot tries to waste my time with a "How much do you want for it?" email, at least I could give him a straight answer I'm comfortable with!
     
  13. xytor

    xytor New Member

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    well, the domains that have a specific purpose are more usefull. so, prospectmail and especially discountmediaonline would fetch the highest price. If i was in that business, i would pay over 600 for those.
    The domains without any distinguishable purpose, like hitakey wouldn't really fetch that much, and might go for the 300.
    plus, isn't it "Hit any key to continue"?

    just my 2 cents, anyway

    P.S. domains that already contain a good traffic base, like the porn site should sell for more. If i was a moron in the porn business and didn't care about people's relationships, i would buy that domain for a higher price because it already has traffic AND a site (even if i wish to change the theme...)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2005
  14. Vaelor

    Vaelor New Member

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    111
    Well, Prospect Mail is actually a complete fully-functional live online business to boot, so I'm looking for at least four figures for that, as a package - I'd be reluctant to sell the domain alone without the site/business, but for the right price, I would of course.

    As for your hit any key theory... shhh, I don't own hitanykey.com!! =P

    Although, funnily, that was the one that I received the expression of interest to buy just the other day, so somebody wants it. Shame they were rude, curt, and arrogant, and refused to actual enter negotiations with me about it. I would probably have let it go for less than I think it's worth at the time, had they not been so aloof about discussing the matter.

    Thanks for your feedback, anyway. Is anybody else actually reading this thread? I'd value some "second opinions", as I mentioned earlier - whether anybody knows of some sites where I can compare similar domains and what they sold for, or at least on what you personally feel my domains are worth...
     
  15. xytor

    xytor New Member

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    Wow, i didn't notice. Dont sell prospectmail for less than 5k!
    (unless you really need to, that is)
     
  16. Vaelor

    Vaelor New Member

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    No, I don't need to. It has no ongoing maintenance costs in its current state besides the yearly domain renewal, so I plan on sitting on it until I'm offered an amount somewhere in that ballpark. While the site was in operation, our biggest campaign package sold for $1,000, so I'd be an idiot to let the site go for less than what I could make in a single sale if I re-activated the business and continued running it internally. I don't think an asking price in the vicinity of $5,000 would be unreasonable, though of course like all my domains, I'm open to a generous degree of negotiation on that figure.

    I'm glad to hear you agree, though. Really do appreciate all the feedback you've given me on this matter so far.
     
  17. ian

    ian Administrator Staff Member

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    2,153
    Yes there is, http://www.dnjournal.com/domainsales.htm
     
  18. Vaelor

    Vaelor New Member

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    Ahh Ian, you're a genius and a lifesaver - this is exactly what I've been looking for! Thanks so much for the link, this will be a huge help!
     
  19. gateshosting

    gateshosting New Member

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    The question isn't how much it is worth, it is only worth $10 unless you know you can make money with it. Anything over the $8.85 you paid is profit. Personally, you got lucky, and got the domain name first, now are trying to tell everyone else "Sorry, you lost, now pay me as much as you will!!!". Everyone deserves to make a profit.

    I say step up, put a price on it, and that's that. Or do like the others say, have someone place a bid, post it on the site, and if you don't get offers in a certain period of time, sell it.

    McG
     
  20. Vaelor

    Vaelor New Member

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    Personally, I don't agree with a word of that, but that's just my opinion.

    Me, I'm of the school of thought that domain names are "virtual real estate". You wouldn't buy a block of land and then consider yourself to have "got lucky" to have got it first and that it's not really worth more than the initial price you pay for it. Much as a block of land varies in value by its size, its location, what can be done with it, and how you market it, a domain name is no different. And as for "getting it first", that's not "luck". Several of the domains I own are pre-owned, and I considered them to be enough of an investment to purchase with intent to resell. As for the ones that weren't, I didn't just up and stumble over them one day and go "Oh, what luck, a domain I could sell!", like finding a shiny penny in the street. I spent a lot of time and effort hunting for specific keyword combinations to find a domain that had marketing value but wasn't already registered - like panning through rocks and mud to find a tiny nugget of gold.

    But anyways, each to their own school of thought, I suppose.

    On a side note, I've found a domain reselling company that actually lets you list on commission, rather than payment up front, which is exactly what I've been looking for. So I've moved all my domains for sale to Sedo.com, where they will get considerably more exposure from serious domain buyers, rather than annoying half-interested people who happen to blow past the site and send me annoying half-interested emails.
     

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