Should all web developers know graphic design? My opinion = yes

[designaboy]

Graphic design is an essential part of all web-design projects, unless your building straight html website that look like they come from the 90's.
Apparently this is a controversial question, and fair enough back in the day, but in todays highly visual culture, I don't see how any web developer can really function without at least a fair understanding of graphic design and visual impressions on the web.
Especially with todays trends away from coding itself, and packages like Adobe Muse enabling print and graphic designers to build unique websites without code.
As an Australian web developer, I've learned to 'do it all' as that's how we do it here, and I am aware that designers are able to specialize more in the States an other parts of the world.
But even still, as a developer who likes to keep his finger on the pulse of the industry - I'm just curious to know if you would agree that graphic design skills/understanding have truly become an essential part of todays web developers skill-set?
All thoughts appreciated=)

 

[Phreaddee]

Yes, although muse is a step in the wrong direction.
Its web design for posers.
Best solution is to work with a gd. And know your code inside out.
That will give u the "edge"

 

[Phreaddee]

Altho graphic laden sites or bastardised versions of psd's is the bane of my existence.
Also web design for posers, if you think a css/html only site is 90's, you mustnt have seen those horrible slice and dice sites, which were probably "designed" by a gd, and ruined by a coder who didnt know what they were doing.
Also too many sites with inappropriate ap divs everywhere are usually from a lazy coder, or a gd trying to be a web developer...good knowledge of code will take u places "muse" can only dream of...

 

[computerGeek]

I don't think so. but it would be a plus to know about graphic designs.

 

[designaboy]

Yes, although muse is a step in the wrong direction.
Its web design for posers.

Would you mind elaborating a little more on why you think this is now true? Could you add anything to the above reasons?

On the topic of Muse, it may be a step in the wrong direction, but I'm not willing to call that yet, its not yet out of beta. But Is that really the point - 'Muse' and 'Edge' are Adobe's new direction whether forward or backward, and it's affecting our industry already.

Best solution is to work with a gd. And know your code inside out. That will give u the "edge"

Specializing in wd and working with a gd definitely works, especially if the two work closely together, but would you call this the ideal design system?

good knowledge of code will take u places "muse" can only dream of...

I agree, Muse isn't yet appropriate for all web design projects by a long shot, and still fairly limited, though for simple static html web pages/sites with elaborate/creative graphic designs, I would personally use Muse. Time is money, and Muse enables me to complete a website in roughly a fifth of the time.
Would you agree muse has its place, besides the fact that you are probably very comfortable and proficient with your code?

I don't think so. but it would be a plus to know about graphic designs.

Could you please under what circumstances a web developer can effectively function without a decent grasp or understanding of graphic design?

 

[Phreaddee]

Muse outputs miserable code, its really paint by numbers, just like squarespace.
Without any understanding of how to make a webpage, anyone can use it.
Therefore not only bad design, but bad code will hence be the norm.
This floods the market with so many bad sites, that it devalues the process.
Youll see folk offering to make a page for $100.
Time is money, but you also get what u pay for. The more of these out there actually decreases the quality on the web and therefore your income. Cause and effect. If ANYONE can do it, who is going to pay a web designer?

where I work we have a team of 4, marketing, project manager, graphic design and web developer.
Everyone has their skills that they r best at, and the results show...
So yes I think its a good model, larger organisations break it down even further and the end result of that is bigger, better sites for bigger better clients, as a one man band youll struggle to compete for the top end of town. You end up doing too many ma + pa websites, and thus get pidgeonholed as such...

 

[che09]

A decent understanding on Graphics is really needed to develop any web sites! Thus,it might not be that 'compulsory' but somehow it will lead you to that matter.

 

[designaboy]

Muse outputs miserable code, its really paint by numbers, just like squarespace.

I couldn't agree more, the div tag soup it produces is almost impossible to tweak by hand or in DW, keeping the site within the limitations of Muse itself.

If ANYONE can do it, who is going to pay a web designer?

Do you really think that software like muse, even once perfected, could ever leave the services of an experienced professional redundant? Of course I don't know but I'd be inclined to disagree.
I anticipate the larger businesses with bigger projects still hire an experienced professional, and wont budget cut to the extreme of attempting their own website, especially when advanced functionality such as shopping cart systems are required. Can you honestly see any decent client accepting a $100 website offer?

Yes, its fairly clear from the features on the Muse website that its designed help graphic/print designers and pretty much anyone to build their own simple site. But I think it stands to reason then that your 'mum n pop' jobs are the ones that will disappear as a result of this.
How else can you see Muse affecting our industry?

we have a team of 4, marketing, project manager, graphic design and web developer.
Everyone has their skills that they r best at, and the results show

Couldn't agree more, and I think that's where Australia fails to compete with other nations in various media industries as there's really not enough specializing happening. But apparently too many Australian employers are looking for someone with a wide range of skills who can virtually do a job from start to finish. Would you say this is true?

it might not be that 'compulsory' but somehow it will lead you to that matter.

I agree. So you would say that as an ideal, all web developers should know/understand graphic design?

Thanks for your thoughts guys =)

 

[Phreaddee]

of course you do realise I am only talking hypotheticals with you here.
im not really concerned that someone will steal my job for $100. I know well enough that if the client wants to go with that then it would have been a crap client anyway, but on a whole I do see that products such as muse does make it difficult for those just starting to get their foot in the door.

the market in australia is small, and more often than not the client has no concept really whatsoever of the level of technical skill that is required to make a comprehensive website, and not knowing where you are situated, and more than likely places such as sydney and melbourne are different but in particular in newcastle there is a level of ignorance based on price and value. maybe not to the extent of $100, but there is a selection of web designers (mostly freelancers) who are offering "site in a day" and wordpress templated rubbish for next to nothing, and when I was freelancing a large percentage of proposals were lost because I couldnt and wouldnt match their astronomically low prices. the end result of that was a whole stack of substandard sites being built by less than average "professionals".

the issue with muse is that despite the horrendous code, the graphical output is actually not that bad, and as such the ignorance behind the actual workings behind a website is perpetuated further as it looks good and is done quickly and is cheap. I know if i was just starting out today I would have a hard time competing within the already very small market to get the job because i'm not prepared to sell my worth for less than is viable.

you are correct in your assumption that employers want someone who can do it all, and this is incredibly frustrating. but there is a lot of very innovative small to medium firms that do specialise and its just a matter of finding them and getting your portfolio to them.

larger organisations still who are after specialists will already have a graphic design department and your job essentially will be to make their designs come to life. or as a graphic designer you'll then pass your work on to the developers. as a freelancer it is imperitive that you have a good grounding in both, but unless you want to stay a freelancer for ever you need to choose which side of the fence you sit on and focus on that almost exclusively.

I dont make any logos, or GUI's or any of that, but a lot of the typography, and interpreting the design is left to me, likewise I dont expect the graphic designers i work with to be able to code sites, and muse well is just confusion between the two. having said that my understanding of graphic design when I was freelancing has led me to my current situation and im very grateful of the study, learning and understanding i have of graphic design which in the end makes my job a lot easier to manage.

on the other side of the coin a graphic designer who does not have any concept of exactly what it is that makes a site work, and function, cannot deliver you a quality GUI to work with. thats when you end up with useless PSD's which, honestly, id rather eat dog shit than try and make that into a website.

I'm a bit pissy tonight so i'm probably waffling A LOT but to answer your original question...
Is it important to be knowledgable in Graphic Design? YES.
Should you however be required to do it as part of your job description. NO

 

[robertmarks62]

Whether you are just starting out as a Web designer or Web developer or are looking to become one, there are skills you need to know to be successful. The following list of technical skills is a list of the skills you need to be a good Web designer. They are listed in importance to getting a job as a Web designer, although some may be in higher demand than others.

The list includes information about the skill, where to learn more about it, training resources, and whether it's more useful to a Web designer or a Web developer.
1. HTML

HTML is the most important thing a Web designer or Web developer can learn. Even if you plan on using WYSIWYG editors for most of your career, knowing HTML will give you an understanding of how the Web works so that your designs will be more effective.

HTML is imperative to both Web designers and Web developers. Even Web designers who don't plan to do much work outside of a WYSIWYG editor should learn HTML so that they know the basis of their Web pages.

 

[Phreaddee]

...and css and javascript. Absolute minimum requirement.

 

[designaboy]

Na mate, I appreciate your 'waffle'. The intention of this Thread was to engage in a decent debate, to hear some different perspectives to my own, and gauge the general opinion of todays web developers.

So what you (and I) saying is that the way WYSIWYG editors like Muse are evolving is only going to further confuse and undervalue this trade in the eyes of the general public, but isn't going to affect the higher end web developers and professionals with established careers. Instead only making it difficult for beginners because
1. They have a greater competition from the up-start print and graphic designers who suddenly think they can make websites without any knowledge or appreciation for the design process.
2. They may have difficulty being distinguished from these type of 'designers'.
3. Because they may be confused as to the correct path to becoming competent web developer, and what skills are necessary.

Right? ^^

Question - would you say your a 'friend of the industry', and that you like to see all who call themselves web developers gain a better understanding and respect for the fundamentals, or you feel that the situation cant be helped (probably true), and are content that you've found one of the few decent teams to work with, and help educate a few other developers who are willing to learn?

Does it really bother you? Doesn't bother me, as there are many industries and areas of life where uve got the pro's on top, the armatures on the bottom, and gap between thats not easily bridged.
For example - The team at my dream studio - Brooklyns Carrot Creative, who recently developed a more intelligent way to view and use facebook in a circular page - 'Platlas' . - They've all worked hard to get where they are and do what they do, and think it should be just as hard for any other beginner to reach that level, separating those with real determination and discipline, and those who look for an easy buck/career.

And if the flood of inexperienced 'web developer' becomes that bad, I anticipate that it will simply draw more light to the fact that businesses need to take a closer look at the methods, portfolio, reputations and credentials of the developers they hire, and what it REALLY takes to succeed in this industry. Do you think that this could eventually have a positive effect on the industry in the end?
I believe its possible, just not sure how probable.

Apart from the above thoughts I can basically agree with your answer and can sympathize with all your 'waffle' completely=)

HTML is the most important thing a Web designer or Web developer can learn.

I agree. But that doesn't make a very comprehensive list. I also agree CSS, and JavaScript are also minimum requirement skills of a web developer.
But what I'm asking is if you would count graphic design ability, or at least know how to this list today?

 

[Phreaddee]

Haha, thanks for appreciating it!

I would regard myself as a "friend of the industry" if I think ive understood your meaning of that correctly. I guess I may be slightly intolerant of those trying to sidestep it all and make a quick buck, but certainly happy to help out many upcoming web folk who are at a cross roads with a problem.

You would possibly notice here on this forum alone ive made several posts. Of which I believe only 2 are questions or problems ive had. (having said that probably a good 50 of them have also been to shout someone down!)

in any case your assumption is correct that we are infact in agreeance on a lot of points.

Carrot creative do some pretty mad work, and I think anyone would aspire to be part of that model.

It doesnt bother me that much, but I guess enough to have an opinion. And you might be right, the bottom feeders may be more volumnous but those with the determination will still make it in this industry.

Its been nice to have a discussion that hasnt been regarding "templates", "slice n dice psd" or image maps... So thanks.

 

[Phreaddee]

And the overflow of crap sites that need to be redesigned will only increase, and thats your bread and butter right there...

So muse (and co) might indeed work out beneficial

 

[bermuda]

It might not be a must but can be definitely recommended if the pros know how to handle graphical projects. A professional PHP developer might be working in a reputable company without even knowing anything about templates or graphics because that person might be very busy creating and editing codes and programming bits for an e-commerce project. In the same company, another developer might be found who knows a lot about graphics and may have created tons of multimedia projects.

Apparently, it depends on the situations and if you are at home, trying to become an experienced freelancer who can make amazing websites and templates, the more you know the better. Most branches of web making are connected to each other and naturally by raising your knowledge level about a certain subject, sooner or later you will feel more relaxed when you encounter a custom scenario or project which demands knowing how to work with graphics and multimedia units.