Tables Are Your Friends

AlphanetChrisC · 09-24-2008, 11:55 PM

I remember a time when I was an intern and the lead web designer was using tables to create Websites. It wasn't until I the company shut down that I realized how dangerous his technique was. All He did was Slice Slice Slice, no css whatsoever and when I asked he would claim that "Dreamweaver does it for you". Which is true. However, every single thing was one big image, even the text, on top of that some were pngs which take forever to learn. Moral is... don't be afraid of tables, use them correctly and they'll treat u good.

starteasy · 09-25-2008, 02:53 PM

AAAHAHA

that's gold. You know I've seen a 'professional' web design business with the imageready comments still in the html, and the same deal...most text was an image rofl! What is even funnier...they ask for over $2k per site!

Gold!

John

FeatherCodeTy · 09-27-2008, 02:18 AM

Hilarious.

It isn't that difficult to learn and understand web standards. The funny thing is when certain firms charge extra for "tables" or "verified code," when really those things should be standard.

wetgravy · 09-28-2008, 03:22 AM

thats 90's web design for you. once high speed became cost effective ... pow ... frame sites, table layouts of giant bulky images and lots of lens flares and gifs. i'm glad most web designers broke that habit.

starteasy · 09-28-2008, 02:45 PM

I find it a hard habbit to break, but I try and remove myself from the egotistical design style and maintain a style that is based upon the simplest to use and quickest to load (ie CSS sites). I am good at making a kick a$$ flash driven sites that make you dribble on your keyboard, but i just think that it is pretentious garbage and detracts (depending on the product/service) from what you are trying to accomplish.

adamblan · 09-28-2008, 11:46 PM

I was relieved to see that this post wasn't actually promoting designing with tables...

As a rule, always avoid using tables for layout.

Use them for data display only & you'll be ok...

starteasy · 09-28-2008, 11:57 PM

I've never had any issues with tables...well, it took me about a month to work out how to best use them. I am looking at Div tags, as I'm really good with CSS, but I can't seem to get into my head the idea of how to place the div cells. I think because im more of a visual person, and I do use Dreamweaver to a certain extent, I find tables easier as I can just whack them in, go into the code and change their properties, and watch how it changes in the WYSIWYG screen.

What are the issues with tables that you all know of, or is it just "professionals use div tags in order to separate themselves from the n00bs"?

PS. I know Div tags are far better for creating fluid sites, but all of mine are fixed.

wetgravy · 09-30-2008, 08:26 PM

I use tables quite frequently if the client doesn't know much html and uses a program like dreamweaver to update their website (though i think that is like giving a handgun to a child) And in cases of complete computer illiteracy i've gone as far as to incorperate secondary xml pages and/or iframes

into the mix so they don't play with the base code at all. (did that with a "pro"-skate team out of portland ... their entire site was extensive xml pages that loaded content onto the main page, so they could update the sections without having to know more than wordpad and how to upload using their hosts filemanager.)

Depends on your use, client, and what your preference is. Until some codemonkey makes something that is as universal or as simple as tables ... its here to stay. And there's nothing wrong with using it, if you don't butcher chop it with 18 stacking tables within tables.

athomas · 09-30-2008, 10:58 PM

Tables are not actually the best. If you want valid W3C code, and also want to specify table sizes without creating five billion CSS classes, it won't work.

starteasy · 10-01-2008, 12:10 AM

Yeah I must admit, my css is pretty lengthy without the use of div tags, because full browser compatability is generally an issue.

09-24-2008, 11:55 PM	#1
AlphanetChrisC New Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 9	Tables Are Your Friends I remember a time when I was an intern and the lead web designer was using tables to create Websites. It wasn't until I the company shut down that I realized how dangerous his technique was. All He did was Slice Slice Slice, no css whatsoever and when I asked he would claim that "Dreamweaver does it for you". Which is true. However, every single thing was one big image, even the text, on top of that some were pngs which take forever to learn. Moral is... don't be afraid of tables, use them correctly and they'll treat u good.

09-25-2008, 02:53 PM	#2
starteasy Bronze Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Adelaide Posts: 46	AAAHAHA that's gold. You know I've seen a 'professional' web design business with the imageready comments still in the html, and the same deal...most text was an image rofl! What is even funnier...they ask for over $2k per site! Gold! John __________________ Cheap and Effective Web and Print Design at StartEasy Computing - Where it's Easy from the Beginning

09-27-2008, 02:18 AM	#3
FeatherCodeTy New Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 11	Hilarious. It isn't that difficult to learn and understand web standards. The funny thing is when certain firms charge extra for "tables" or "verified code," when really those things should be standard. __________________ FeatherCode.com - PSD to XHTML/CSS for $75. Tableless, W3C Verified, Browser Tested, and done within 24 hours. Light Code, Lighter Price! FeatherCode!

09-28-2008, 02:45 PM	#5
starteasy Bronze Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Adelaide Posts: 46	I find it a hard habbit to break, but I try and remove myself from the egotistical design style and maintain a style that is based upon the simplest to use and quickest to load (ie CSS sites). I am good at making a kick a$$ flash driven sites that make you dribble on your keyboard, but i just think that it is pretentious garbage and detracts (depending on the product/service) from what you are trying to accomplish. __________________ Cheap and Effective Web and Print Design at StartEasy Computing - Where it's Easy from the Beginning

09-28-2008, 11:46 PM	#6
adamblan Silver Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Lake Tahoe Posts: 235	I was relieved to see that this post wasn't actually promoting designing with tables... As a rule, always avoid using tables for layout. Use them for data display only & you'll be ok... __________________ <ablank.us>

09-28-2008, 03:22 AM	#4
wetgravy Silver Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 176	thats 90's web design for you. once high speed became cost effective ... pow ... frame sites, table layouts of giant bulky images and lots of lens flares and gifs. i'm glad most web designers broke that habit.

09-28-2008, 11:57 PM	#7
starteasy Bronze Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Adelaide Posts: 46	I've never had any issues with tables...well, it took me about a month to work out how to best use them. I am looking at Div tags, as I'm really good with CSS, but I can't seem to get into my head the idea of how to place the div cells. I think because im more of a visual person, and I do use Dreamweaver to a certain extent, I find tables easier as I can just whack them in, go into the code and change their properties, and watch how it changes in the WYSIWYG screen. What are the issues with tables that you all know of, or is it just "professionals use div tags in order to separate themselves from the n00bs"? PS. I know Div tags are far better for creating fluid sites, but all of mine are fixed. __________________ Cheap and Effective Web and Print Design at StartEasy Computing - Where it's Easy from the Beginning

09-30-2008, 08:26 PM	#8
wetgravy Silver Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 176	I use tables quite frequently if the client doesn't know much html and uses a program like dreamweaver to update their website (though i think that is like giving a handgun to a child) And in cases of complete computer illiteracy i've gone as far as to incorperate secondary xml pages and/or iframes into the mix so they don't play with the base code at all. (did that with a "pro"-skate team out of portland ... their entire site was extensive xml pages that loaded content onto the main page, so they could update the sections without having to know more than wordpad and how to upload using their hosts filemanager.) Depends on your use, client, and what your preference is. Until some codemonkey makes something that is as universal or as simple as tables ... its here to stay. And there's nothing wrong with using it, if you don't butcher chop it with 18 stacking tables within tables.

09-30-2008, 10:58 PM	#9
athomas Silver Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Eastern Shore, MD, USA Posts: 146	Tables are not actually the best. If you want valid W3C code, and also want to specify table sizes without creating five billion CSS classes, it won't work.

10-01-2008, 12:10 AM	#10
starteasy Bronze Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Adelaide Posts: 46	Yeah I must admit, my css is pretty lengthy without the use of div tags, because full browser compatability is generally an issue. __________________ Cheap and Effective Web and Print Design at StartEasy Computing - Where it's Easy from the Beginning

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